Thanks Cat.
I know I can move the lower plate from my existing lower to this spare lower, but I was just hoping to build a separate lower and not take my original apart..............but if the cost is too high, I will transfer the parts.
R
Liquid Cooled Kenne Bell Lines through the Engine Coolant System
- Thread starter Van@RevanRacing
- Start date
Thanks Cat.
I know I can move the lower plate from my existing lower to this spare lower, but I was just hoping to build a separate lower and not take my original apart..............but if the cost is too high, I will transfer the parts.
R
At Tasca's prices, they're close to $400 for the pair before shipping. I'd probably do it in your case, just to have a complete stock intake. If you don't have the intercooler adapter and tubes, those parts are quite pricey too, but can be purchased individually. The tubes don't come with the o-rings either. I've got a part number for these if you need it. There are also some mounting frames that go on the outside of the intercooler where it mounts to the manifold. I've never seen these listed, but if you don't have them, you may well need to rob them from the old manifold too. I think a savy parts guy like Steve as Tasca might be able to get you a part number for those.
Unless you find someone with a damaged upper manifold, I think you're going to have a hard time finding that base plate separate in the used market place.
Unless you find someone with a damaged upper manifold, I think you're going to have a hard time finding that base plate separate in the used market place.
I don't know if I'll live up to the comment of I "always got it right." LOL
the Carbon SC housing really won't have much effect on IAT2 temps in my mind. The heat introduced by the SC is strictly coming from compressing the air, not from conductive sources through the SC housing. If you do as you've seen Fischer Motorsports in isolating the intake manifold from the conductive heat source of the engine. Because at the same time you've isolated the SC housing from the same heat source by the composite spacers and remote water necks of the intake system. So the only heat source after this mod in the SC is the actual fact you're compressing air inside the case to push into the engine. The next best thing to do in my mind id find ways to lower boost pressure, while moving larger volumes of air in CFM. or LPM. If you can drop boost pressure for each 1 psi both above the intercooler and in the intake manifold, you've lowered the air temperature 10*F. Drop these pressures by 4 psi and you've lost 40*F in air temperatures. This is heat the intercooler and HE don't have to remove. Remember this.......you don't care how much boost you make, but you really do care about how much air you can get into the engine. The more air by volume( CFM/LPM) the more fuel you introduce into the engine to produce Hp. A engine and SC combo that builds 20 psi of boost with a total air volume of 1500 CFM of air entering the engine will introduce more heat to the air entering the engine than and engine moving 1500CFM of air at 15 psi of boost. I think mods that reduce boost pressure while increasing airflow are much safer on the engine. Eventually you'll be at the limits of the fuel's detonation characteristics regardless of how low the boost is. Hp and torque is a direct result of cylinder pressures
That’s Stiegemeier’s “Venom cooler”.
I have it too on my Gen-II VMP S/C for almost 3 years. It does do a good job on cooling down the front small housing (in term cools down the front pulley shaft bearings). But also, helps to cool down the S/C gear oil – but not by a lot.
What I refer to is a new center bearing support plate with built-in water passage around the bearings to cools down the bearings, the center bearing plate, and the gear oil.
I have it too on my Gen-II VMP S/C for almost 3 years. It does do a good job on cooling down the front small housing (in term cools down the front pulley shaft bearings). But also, helps to cool down the S/C gear oil – but not by a lot.
What I refer to is a new center bearing support plate with built-in water passage around the bearings to cools down the bearings, the center bearing plate, and the gear oil.
Van@RevanRacing
Active Member
26 PSI in a KB 4.7 at 230 MPH and the IAT2's were 95 degrees. Engine coolant temp was 180 degrees. This is an easy can effective means of bypassing the Ice Cell system so that you do not run ice water through the supercharger as Bad Company explained the negative effects of ice water running through the supercharger.
No doubt that cooler temps running through the seal plate are of benefit. No debating that. In fact I'm not debating anybody. We've used this on multiple set ups and it works fine and the water streams out as I discussed with Robert previously. Not sure why his doesn't but we had a steady stream on multiple applications.
Keep in mind that the KB Patent on the Liquid Cooled system and introduction was in 2010. Also keep in mind that you can run any KB supercharger with the LC system disconnected it just has higher temperatures at the seal plate, front gear case and rear rotor case. Fluid even at 170-180 degrees is better than no fluid.
Again, this is just a simple means of bypassing an ICE CELL if you run ice and need to bypass the LC system on a Kenne Bell Supercharger.
No doubt that cooler temps running through the seal plate are of benefit. No debating that. In fact I'm not debating anybody. We've used this on multiple set ups and it works fine and the water streams out as I discussed with Robert previously. Not sure why his doesn't but we had a steady stream on multiple applications.
Keep in mind that the KB Patent on the Liquid Cooled system and introduction was in 2010. Also keep in mind that you can run any KB supercharger with the LC system disconnected it just has higher temperatures at the seal plate, front gear case and rear rotor case. Fluid even at 170-180 degrees is better than no fluid.
Again, this is just a simple means of bypassing an ICE CELL if you run ice and need to bypass the LC system on a Kenne Bell Supercharger.
I didn't understand it either, the lack of flow through the small Y tube. The engine was up to operating temp, multiple times, I was able to blow through the small tube at the degas bottle back toward the engine and also through each of the small nipples at the intake when the coolant system was drained. The only thing I could attribute the lack of significant coolant flow to is that the coolant level at the correct "hot" line in the oem plastic tank was below the level of those two small nipples and the equal coolant level in the engine, once the system is burped I assume would also be below those small nipples leaving only degas air in the area above the coolant level in the engine and in the bottle?
R
Van@RevanRacing
Active Member
Can you pressurize the system to 16 psi and bleed the air? Ours literally flowed all the time.
That may be where the difference is, I had the end of the hose that normally connects to the reservoir, placed in an empty water bottle waiting for coolant to flow after about 20 minutes of idle with an occasional throttle blip. <<This was after I had run/burped the system over a couple of days previous. When I put that same hose end in the same bottle with water in it, I did see bubbles come out of the end of the hose, so the system did have some expansion going on and air was escaping through those towers and that hose end.
R
Robert
Flow is established by the pressure differential in the system. The way this system is plumbed you have a pressure differential caused by the thermostat. This is the restriction after the water pump in the engine and the coolant reservoir where you're returning the water from the degas hoses at the front coolant towers of the manifold. People don't realize that the pump will actually have a higher pressure outflow than the coolant system static pressure. So you either have a pump that isn't establishing a high pressure differential or you have a restriction of water flow of the LC hoses to the SC. The LC hose size is more than adequate to have a volume of flow. Could you possibly left a piece of paper towel in a fitting? The other thing is the water pump moving the water throughout the whole cooling system correctly? I can't remember if the 13/14 have a different pump than the earlier years or if there was a change in the aluminum blocks to enhance the cooling system flow. I do remember something being different though. If you wanted to test the water pump's output pressure you can actually install a temporary pressure gauge on your LC return line to watch how the pump is functioning. You'll have to do this without returning coolant to the system at the gauge. Take the hose off the reservoir, cap the tank off where the hose is installed and install the gauge in the end of the hose. Let the engine warm up to establish flow through the rest of the cooling system and then monitor your gauge throughout the engine RPM range to see how high above the cap pressure it goes to establish flow through this line. If pressure doesn't increase pressure above cap pressure than you don't have a good flow off of the pump or you have a restriction somewhere not allowing the pressure to increase on this system.
Also what you see at a slow idle of the engine versus what you'll see at higher engine RPM will be different due to the water pumps faster RPM. I've seen water pump impellers start to spin on the shaft as engine RPM increases on the big Cat engines causing issues. Measuring pump pressure output is the only way to find it without taking the water pump off the engine.
Flow is established by the pressure differential in the system. The way this system is plumbed you have a pressure differential caused by the thermostat. This is the restriction after the water pump in the engine and the coolant reservoir where you're returning the water from the degas hoses at the front coolant towers of the manifold. People don't realize that the pump will actually have a higher pressure outflow than the coolant system static pressure. So you either have a pump that isn't establishing a high pressure differential or you have a restriction of water flow of the LC hoses to the SC. The LC hose size is more than adequate to have a volume of flow. Could you possibly left a piece of paper towel in a fitting? The other thing is the water pump moving the water throughout the whole cooling system correctly? I can't remember if the 13/14 have a different pump than the earlier years or if there was a change in the aluminum blocks to enhance the cooling system flow. I do remember something being different though. If you wanted to test the water pump's output pressure you can actually install a temporary pressure gauge on your LC return line to watch how the pump is functioning. You'll have to do this without returning coolant to the system at the gauge. Take the hose off the reservoir, cap the tank off where the hose is installed and install the gauge in the end of the hose. Let the engine warm up to establish flow through the rest of the cooling system and then monitor your gauge throughout the engine RPM range to see how high above the cap pressure it goes to establish flow through this line. If pressure doesn't increase pressure above cap pressure than you don't have a good flow off of the pump or you have a restriction somewhere not allowing the pressure to increase on this system.
Also what you see at a slow idle of the engine versus what you'll see at higher engine RPM will be different due to the water pumps faster RPM. I've seen water pump impellers start to spin on the shaft as engine RPM increases on the big Cat engines causing issues. Measuring pump pressure output is the only way to find it without taking the water pump off the engine.
I do have pressure on my system when I leave the cap tightened on my reservoir, and the coolant is flowing in the system after the thermostat opens. My temp gauge runs in the normal range where it has always been at normal operating temp. Maybe it was just a fluke that I did not see any significant coolant flow at that small reservoir hose, there are no blockages anywhere, I had never blocked anything, just opened up the system in a few key locations to fully drain and then blow out (with a shop vac) any additional old coolant from the system.
I started down the Evans waterless high performance coolant path, but found that I don't think I will ever get my cast iron block cooling system clean enough for using Evans.........
R
Robert......you don't understand what I'm saying.
A Cat engine uses a 7 lb radiator cap to control the coolant boiling temperature on the system. These cars use a 16 lb radiator cap for the same purpose. This pressure isn't what I'm talking about.
Think of your garden hose and the valve you open and close to get water out of it. The restriction is the hose bib/spigot.......... the other end of the hose is your low pressure point because it is open to the atmosphere. Open the valve and the water flows. This is an example of what I mean by pressure differential.
When you measure the water pump's pumping capability you install a pressure gauges on the degas hose at the engine's thermostat housing on a Cat engine, which is reading the water pressure the water pump is creating inside of the engine to establish water flow. The pressure at this point on a Cat engine should be a minimum of 15 psi or higher for satisfactory water flow throughput of coolant throughout the engine and its ability to cool be moving the water from one point to the other and using the thermostat as the restriction in flow to create the pressure differential between the suction side of the pump and the output side of the pump. The 15 psi measurement is higher than the radiator caps 7 lb rating.
I hope this explains what I'm trying to say in a manner where you can try to read a pressure differential and if this is why you're flow is low.
I would hope that my 2008 does not have any cooling system issues, it has had the system flushed a couple of times since 2008 and only has 1069 original miles. Unless something has gone bad early, I should be in good shape with such ultra low miles. Everything I have taken apart for coolant flushing looks brand new on the inside, both radiator and I/C. I just wanted to better protect my cooling systems longevity with the Evans waterless coolant solution to system deterioration. <<While I had it apart, I figured I would see what the degas hose was doing............
^^^ This being said, you are saying I should be able to install a gauge at my degas hose and measure the psi in the system to verify that I have a good psi?
The 1993, 1995 and 2000 Cobra R's that I owned also had degas bottles/systems installed from SVT, I do not remember them having coolant flow through the bottles either, but that was a few years ago when I owned them so I don't remember for sure.
R
^^^ This being said, you are saying I should be able to install a gauge at my degas hose and measure the psi in the system to verify that I have a good psi?
The 1993, 1995 and 2000 Cobra R's that I owned also had degas bottles/systems installed from SVT, I do not remember them having coolant flow through the bottles either, but that was a few years ago when I owned them so I don't remember for sure.
R
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Yes
I'd take a pressure reading with the engine cold at 1200-2500 engine RPM with the thermostats closed to see how much pressure the pump can produce.
Unfortunately nobody knows what would be the output pressure of the pump. I also don't know how much coolant is bypassed in the system that could lower the pressure reading. I would expect it to read something though. As temperature in the engine increases you'll see a pressure increase from expansion of the coolant , which is controlled by the radiator cap.
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