Mods required to safely get 800 RWHP on pump gas?

[quad]

What mods would you recommend for my stock terminator engine to reliably and safely make around 800 rwhp on pump gas? My car as it sits makes around 700 RWHP on E85 with a Whipple Charger and completely stock engine. The boost is too high to safely run with 93 octane. I store the car with a full tank of 93 octane and stabilizer during winters. What sucks is I have to always run that tank empty before I can switch to E85. That means driving like a granny for 200-250 miles and putting unnecessary miles on the car before I can really enjoy it.

If the engine has to be upgraded so I can get on it even with 93 octane at high boost I'd be interested in that. That way I can enjoy the car regardless of what is in the tank.

 

[9397SVTs]

I think 800 RWHP with 93 octane and only 281 cu.in. is a bit of a reach.

You really only have three foundational options:

1. More cu.in.
2. Increase efficiency *and rpm*
3. Combine 1 and 2

If you stay with the 4.6, then efficiency and flexibility is key.

You can address efficiency with headwork, valves, cams, pistons, intake manifold, coatings on internal components, etc.

You can reduce parasitic losses by reducing reciprocating weight and converting to a turbo set-up. This will also give flexibility in tuning/boost levels for whatever fuel you're using.

Not sure if this is what you want to hear, but it's just my opinion.

*edit*

 

[biminiLX]

Good E85 is too easy to find here, it makes the pump 93 argument difficult. Or completely backwards if it’s already E85 equipped. You can get a quick disconnect fitting and just run the pump out every spring. Use that in the yard equipment.
Definitely stay high boost and E85
-J

 

[quad]

Good E85 is too easy to find here, it makes the pump 93 argument difficult. Or completely backwards if it’s already E85 equipped. You can get a quick disconnect fitting and just run the pump out every spring. Use that in the yard equipment.
Definitely stay high boost and E85
-J

I think that would be the route to go. I've been thinking it would be nice to have a drain in the tank. Thanks for your input!

 

[quad]

I think 800 RWHP with 93 octane and only 281 cu.in. is a bit of a reach.

You really only have three foundational options:

1. More cu.in.
2. Increase efficiency
3. Combine 1 and 2

If you stay with the 4.6, then efficiency and flexibility is key.

You can address efficiency with headwork, valves, cams, pistons, intake manifold, coatings on internal components, etc.

You can reduce parasitic losses by reducing reciprocating weight and converting to a turbo set-up. This will also give flexibility in tuning/boost levels for whatever fuel you're using.

Not sure if this is what you want to hear, but it's just my opinion.

Thanks for the post. I'd rather stick with the Whipple though. The car is incredible with E85.

 

[9397SVTs]

Thanks for the post. I'd rather stick with the Whipple though. The car is incredible with E85.

Well.......if you're wanting to stick with the blower, the suggestions still apply.

I suppose you could still set the car up with 2 tunes, either with a flip chip or handheld tuner.

 

[quad]

Well.......if you're wanting to stick with the blower, the suggestions still apply.

I suppose you could still set the car up with 2 tunes, either with a flip chip or handheld tuner.

It has 3 tunes via a switch in the glove box. E85, 93 and 93 valet.

 

[9397SVTs]

I guess I'm not understanding what you're asking.

You want to make over 100 RWHP more with 93 than you currently make with E85.

You say you have to drive like a granny until the 93 is out in order to put E85 in, yet you have 3 tunes for the car; 2 for 93.

My initial post still applies, minus the turbo suggestion.

Addressing the cooling and oiling systems would be in order. Controlling heat will be very important.

 

[quad]

I have 3 tunes because I can't store the car with E85 because of the moisture issues it brings if left in the tank for a longer period of time. For example the car was not driven for 2 years from 2019-2021. However I can store the car with 93 for 2 years with a stabilizer added. Yes it has a 93 tune but that does not mean I can get on it. My tuner said be careful. The pulleys determine the boost and that can't be changed via a software tune.

So currently I drive the car till all the 93 octane is used up. Then fill the car with E85 and flip the tune so I can get on it. I can't really drive aggressively on 93. If someone pulled up next to me and wanted to race I would not be able to really go all in without risking the engine if I happened to have 93 in the tank - even on the 93 tune.

I was just curious if 800 RWHP was possible with the stock engine w/ potential engine and blower upgrades on 93 octane without risking the engine. For example a bigger blower w/ crusher would get me more HP but I want that on 93 octane without blowing up the engine.

 

[9397SVTs]

Ok. I understand what you're saying.

I think you're trying to fix something that doesn't need to be fixed. Even if it were possible to acheive your goal after all kinds of work/upgrades, you really don't want to take it out of storage and thrash it without driving it a bit anyway.

You can throw a bunch of money at it, but money can't fix your octane limitations.

 

[Bdubbs]

Good E85 is too easy to find here, it makes the pump 93 argument difficult. Or completely backwards if it’s already E85 equipped. You can get a quick disconnect fitting and just run the pump out every spring. Use that in the yard equipment.
Definitely stay high boost and E85
-J

This is pretty similar to what I do.

I store my car with 91 octane. I'll drive it for a little bit in the spring. Then I'll switch over to ethanol.

It's easy for me. I disconnect my fuel line right at my inline fuel filter, then turn the key on. My pumps run full time.


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[MG0h3]

Be quicker/cleaner to swap the pulley and tune than drain the tank.

Probably take a total of 15 min from the minute you step in the garage.

I’d reach back to your tuner RE the “be careful” statement.

No tune should come with a warning so maybe there was a miscommunication.


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[CobraBob]

Yeah, I'm confused as to why the tuner would say "be careful" when using the 93 octane tune with 93 octane fuel.

 

[Weather Man]

They make E85 fuel stabilizer and I stored my car over the winter with a full tank for years.

 

[biminiLX]

Be quicker/cleaner to swap the pulley and tune than drain the tank.

Probably take a total of 15 min from the minute you step in the garage.

I’d reach back to your tuner RE the “be careful” statement.

No tune should come with a warning so maybe there was a miscommunication.


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No way it’d be quicker to change the pulley and tune than to drain the tank.
Couple ways to drain the tank, either under the car by the fuel filter as Bdubbs said or have a fitting on the fuel rail to connect a hose. Put the house in a gas can and turn the key, fuel drained to 1/4 tank, drive to station, fill with E85, done.
In this area, quad and I have access to quality pump E85 so we are lucky.
-J

 

[01yellercobra]

Yeah, I'm confused as to why the tuner would say "be careful" when using the 93 octane tune with 93 octane fuel.

Be quicker/cleaner to swap the pulley and tune than drain the tank.

Probably take a total of 15 min from the minute you step in the garage.

I’d reach back to your tuner RE the “be careful” statement.

No tune should come with a warning so maybe there was a miscommunication.


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He's probably running 20+ psi to hit 700. That much boost on 93 is iffy at best. The 93 tune is probably conservative, but to better to be safe than sorry.

 

[TerminatoRS]

Might be worthwhile researching what that Intervention302 guy on YouTube has done. I believe he's well north of 800 on a mostly stock motor. I want to say he's cammed, maybe ported heads, and a 2.9 Whipple of a more recent generation. Guy's probably on this forum; I just don't know his name.

 

[01yellercobra]

Might be worthwhile researching what that Intervention302 guy on YouTube has done. I believe he's well north of 800 on a mostly stock motor. I want to say he's cammed, maybe ported heads, and a 2.9 Whipple of a more recent generation. Guy's probably on this forum; I just don't know his name.

He's not on pump gas though. OP is wanting to make 800hp on 93 octane.

Which if it was possible a lot of people wouldn't be switching to E85 I think.

 

[MG0h3]

No way it’d be quicker to change the pulley and tune than to drain the tank.
Couple ways to drain the tank, either under the car by the fuel filter as Bdubbs said or have a fitting on the fuel rail to connect a hose. Put the house in a gas can and turn the key, fuel drained to 1/4 tank, drive to station, fill with E85, done.
In this area, quad and I have access to quality pump E85 so we are lucky.
-J

How?

Loosen four Allen screws.

Remove belt.

R&R pulley.

Install belt.

Tighten Allen screws.

Load proper tune.

I could do that before those guys got their car jacked up or on a loft and the fitting off their FF.

Then you gotta deal with the mess…


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[olympic]

800whp on 93 octane would need 25psi of boost, maybe more which would require methanol injection and serious tuning time and safety precautions.