EPA to Start Aggressively Enforcing Emission Defeat Devices

Makobra

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I don't know. Seems like they're already well on their way as it is....

On my 2019 Redeye.....every single time the tire pressure system warning light goes on when I slap on the drag radials to go to the track (no TPMS installed on them) I get an email from Dodge literally within minutes of the malfunction light going off. When I was on the way to the tuner with the off road mid pipes already installed I got an email within minutes of the check engine light coming on...

I pay for no service or connectivity....It did some kind of infotainment update the other day whether I wanted it to or not...

Really doesn't seem like that much of a stretch to build in some type of rolling code that, unless it gets an updated authorization by a specified time, to simply shut down....much like some software platforms do these days...

your phone is connected via bluetooth, right?
 

Sirhc7897

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your phone is connected via bluetooth, right?

Actually no it wasn't. I forgot it on the counter on this last trip. But the warning light came on about 20 minutes after I left the house (10:00ish) and when I got home there was a email on my phone from Dodge (Uconnect or whatever they call the service) received at 10:27am that read "ALERT: Action needed on your 2019 Dodge Challenger!"

Now the car can apparently be it's own wifi hotspot but I do not pay for or have that service enabled...

EDIT - Dodge - VHR
 

Makobra

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you're saying you have that super awesome car and you don't even let your phone use the hands free or streaming or maps capabilities?

nah i don't buy that.

but lets say they do their own cellular service or even satphone thing.

you can fix that with tin foil.
 

GTSpartan

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Or states simply mandate annual emission inspections to register you car.

That would knock a lot of people out of the game right there, having to return your car back to stock every year.
 

Corbic

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Or states simply mandate annual emission inspections to register you car.

That would knock a lot of people out of the game right there, having to return your car back to stock every year.
Huzzah! More government bureaucracy to cripple state budgets and fight an insignificant "problem".
 
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MachME

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1. Interested to see big names on there like Magnaflow. It says primarily for selling cat deletes. Does it not directly say "for off road use only" ? How do they determine then it is a company selling the products fault?

2. As I have said many times on here, modern cars at least, you can make a ton of power through cats. Everyone forgets gt500, hellcat have over 700 HP stock with cats. All the factory turbo engines out there people are turning up boost and fuel and it is fine. To stay on this trend, there should be aftermarket cats that people can add to vehicles that will work on high HP applications. You can run a SCT tune or whatever and still pass a state OBD2 plug in inspection as long as all your emissions items are still running. Just keep the cats in...

The cars I always see driving around you can smell way down the highway are 4 cylinder ricer burner cars. Why would you remove the cat when you're making 150hp? These are the real idiots. Some guys, cannot run cats due to too much boost etc. These cars are not driving every day though. These are weekend, nice weather cars. They should have a special "regulation" that does not need to meet emissions.

3. All old cars are grandfathered in, If they really crack down, car community can just go to older cars and have no emissions.

4. I would like to see someone with a lot of money or fundraiser that has an older diesel, like a 7.3, that is deleted, pay for a professional study with the numbers, logic and everything in a formal paper. The study would be if you were the original or even second owner of a 25 year old deleted 7.3, although pollution in excess vs today diesels, is actually cleaner than buying a new vehicle every 5 years. The building of a new car pollutes and then of course driving it does too. So is it possible a keeping a vehicle for 25 years, even polluting more out of the exhaust, is actually cleaner in the long run? If it is true, then sue the EPA for that o_O
 
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me32

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1. Interested to see big names on there like Magnaflow. It says primarily for selling cat deletes. Does it not directly say "for off road use only" ? How do they determine then it is a company selling the products fault?

2. As I have said many times on here, modern cars at least, you can make a ton of power through cats. Everyone forgets gt500, hellcat have over 700 HP stock with cats. All the factory turbo engines out there people are turning up boost and fuel and it is fine. To stay on this trend, there should be aftermarket cats that people can add to vehicles that will work on high HP applications. You can run a SCT tune or whatever and still pass a state OBD2 plug in inspection as long as all your emissions items are still running. Just keep the cats in...

The cars I always see driving around you can smell way down the highway are 4 cylinder ricer burner cars. Why would you remove the cat when you're making 150hp? These are the real idiots. Some guys, cannot run cats due to too much boost etc. These cars are not driving every day though. These are weekend, nice weather cars. They should have a special "regulation" that does not need to meet emissions.

3. All old cars are grandfathered in, If they really crack down, car community can just go to older cars and have no emissions.

4. I would like to see someone with a lot of money or fundraiser that has an older diesel, like a 7.3, that is deleted, pay for a professional study with the numbers, logic and everything in a formal paper. The study would be if you were the original or even second owner of a 25 year old deleted 7.3, although pollution in excess vs today diesels, is actually cleaner than buying a new vehicle every 5 years. The building of a new car pollutes and then of course driving it does too. So is it possible a keeping a vehicle for 25 years, even polluting more out of the exhaust, is actually cleaner in the long run?

Its all about money. New vehicles = more tax, and licensing revenue.
 

Corbic

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4. I would like to see someone with a lot of money or fundraiser that has an older diesel, like a 7.3, that is deleted, pay for a professional study with the numbers, logic and everything in a formal paper. The study would be if you were the original or even second owner of a 25 year old deleted 7.3, although pollution in excess vs today diesels, is actually cleaner than buying a new vehicle every 5 years. The building of a new car pollutes and then of course driving it does too. So is it possible a keeping a vehicle for 25 years, even polluting more out of the exhaust, is actually cleaner in the long run?

Already done +10 years ago when someone proved a Hummer H2 was better for the environment then a Prius.

Essentially, lithium mining, battery production and cross pacific transportation outweighs fuel savings over the life of the vehicle.

Plenty of people state the same for Plug-In electrics. You are just moving the pollution to "Not In My Backyard" which is the corner stone of leftist policy.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
 

Sirhc7897

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you're saying you have that super awesome car and you don't even let your phone use the hands free or streaming or maps capabilities?

nah i don't buy that.

but lets say they do their own cellular service or even satphone thing.

you can fix that with tin foil.

Oh I absolutely let my phone connect to the car.

What I'm saying is that last Saturday, when I went to the track, I was more focused on making sure I didn't forget my helmet and getting the dog to go outside so he wouldn't go in my house, that I forgot my phone on the counter....The check TPMS warning didn't go off until around 20 minutes later when I was well on down the road and when I got home there was an email on my phone that had been sent to me by Dodge-VHR within a few minutes of the warning going off that morning (while the phone was still sitting on my counter at the house)...
 

Makobra

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Oh I absolutely let my phone connect to the car.

What I'm saying is that last Saturday, when I went to the track, I was more focused on making sure I didn't forget my helmet and getting the dog to go outside so he wouldn't go in my house, that I forgot my phone on the counter....The check TPMS warning didn't go off until around 20 minutes later when I was well on down the road and when I got home there was an email on my phone that had been sent to me by Dodge-VHR within a few minutes of the warning going off that morning (while the phone was still sitting on my counter at the house)...

1. car detects bad thing
2. car tells phone to tell dodge
3. dodge processes message
4. dodge tells phone via text of bad thing

1 happened in your driveway, probably 2, 3 and 4 can happen while you're on the road.
 

rborden

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They’re also coming after street cars converted to race cars.

Recognizing the Protection of Motorsports Act of 2019 (RPM Act) | SEMA

066873668f2ff1f16fe2920830466165.jpg



I bought a stand alone AEM, but if the feds really hammer the SCT's of the world, will the small shops be able to stay in business?

Probably not.

But you can buy the software and learn to tune yourself.
 

Sinister04L

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1. Interested to see big names on there like Magnaflow. It says primarily for selling cat deletes. Does it not directly say "for off road use only" ? How do they determine then it is a company selling the products fault?

Few reasons for that. First, it's easier to go after a few manufacturers than go after thousands of customers. Second, they know that disclaimer is bullshit and that the manufacturer knows what they're being used for. Third, and most importantly, the manufacturers have the cash to pony up for fines and the customers don't.
 

blk02edge

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Here's the first set of problems off the top of my head:
1. who's going to pay for the connection?
2. who's going to guarantee the connection?
3. HOW can you garuntee a connection?
4. how can you legally mandate that the customer must update?
5. the only way to shut down a thing without being able to talk to that thing is to build INTO the thing a self destruct/shutdown protocol on a timer

1-3 is defeated easily because that dog won't hunt. and when i say won't i mean WON'T. its untenable.
4 is a big legal no. we own our property. period end of discussion.
5 is the only way to reliably handle this which can not only be undone programmatically but would spur the ire of the average consumer hereto unknown

you guys are talking about what is possible technologically in theory which in no way translates to the real world.

if your truck lives in a metal skinned garage or is in a rural area the problems of the proposed ideas become crystal clear immediately.

no need to freak out. not only are tuners not going away but it will only get easier to tune cars. mark my words.

but hey we're talkin software and I'm just a senior software developer.
I think you are nuts if you don't think government won't sign that into law. The constitution has already been raped and pillaged as it is with gun rights. You damn well better be worried that they will do it. And car people sure AF won't rise up and start a war over it. Like everything else, they slowly eat away at it. The EPA is just another form of the freedoms being eaten away.
 

Makobra

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I think you are nuts if you don't think government won't sign that into law. The constitution has already been raped and pillaged as it is with gun rights. You damn well better be worried that they will do it. And car people sure AF won't rise up and start a war over it. Like everything else, they slowly eat away at it. The EPA is just another form of the freedoms being eaten away.

you're talking about signing a law that would end whole companies and require billions (maybe trillions) of what companies survived.

not a chance in hell.
 

Deceptive

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you're talking about signing a law that would end whole companies and require billions (maybe trillions) of what companies survived.

not a chance in hell.

Sounds like a Liberal Utopian of more people reliant on the generosity of government handouts. Kind and f exactly what the Left wants; more control.


No IT equipment was stolen in the making of this comment.
 

blk02edge

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you're talking about signing a law that would end whole companies and require billions (maybe trillions) of what companies survived.

not a chance in hell.
And you are underestimating the sheer brilliance (sarcasm) of the Democratic party and the subsidiaries they seem to control such as the EPA. Democrats have literally zero shits given for mass job loss. Canada is a great example and your Democrats idolize our politics.

Yes Trump is currently in power, my advice, don't get cocky.
 

Makobra

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And you are underestimating the sheer brilliance (sarcasm) of the Democratic party and the subsidiaries they seem to control such as the EPA. Democrats have literally zero shits given for mass job loss. Canada is a great example and your Democrats idolize our politics.

Yes Trump is currently in power, my advice, don't get cocky.

sorry i can't hear you over loading my rifle :D
 

blk02edge

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sorry i can't hear you over loading my rifle :D
Jokes on you when some of your states already have worse laws than we do for gun rights... I only say those things because I care... I HATE democrats and I HATE the EPA and these arbitrary laws. I just see things from a different perspective. A lot of yall are too hung up on 'cuz murica' to think it'll happen to you. You dont seem to see the long term war that the D's are waging and still gaining traction.

Outlawing the entire mod industry??? Pshh no biggie.
 

barstowpo

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It really comes down to a complete breakdown of the system. Congress has abdicated their responsibility to legislate. Instead, authority has been delegated to agencies like the EPA that become "legislators" by their rule making. They are unaccountable to anyone. They also give political cover to politicians who no longer have to make rules.
 

JJackson515

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Driving up the price as well.

This has been going on for a while. I personally know quite a few shops going through the EPA RfIs right now. I'm actually working on pivoting my career to handling EPA reinforcement actions for the shops and manufacturers you know and love.

This. This may or may not be a market I am very familiar with, we have dealt with many shops that we support that have been pestered by the 3 letter agency. I am intrigued By your last statement as we work very closely with every flash manufacture (including testing beta verisons, writing code, ect).

If there is a will, there is a way. I hope diesel tuning prices continue to increase.
 

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