3.6 KB vs VMP Gen3R test

2011 gtcs

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Awesome video by VMP testing the 3.6 KB vs a Gen3, this video is cool to me because I've had both blowers. And I'm happy I have the Gen3 now.
 

gimmie11s

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I though they’d both crack 1000 to be honest.

That said, if I ever get back into a s197 500, she’ll definitely have a 2650.


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Handlebar Moustache

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Cool video.

I'm not sure why the graphs weren't superimposed (unless I missed it). Here's what I see...the VMP made ~21 more peak horsepower; the KB made ~40 more ft/lbs of peak torque. The KB curves look a good bit fatter on the bottom end; the VMP curves look a little fatter after 5.5k RPM (assuming I superimposed them correctly). I think the VMP is punching well above its weight (displacement wise) and appears to be a fairly good match for the 3.6 and probably the 3.2 (at least based on this test). I thought the VMP was going to really blow the 3.6 away, but I guess not. I'm subbing for any forthcoming info on Robert's before and after trap speeds...that would be interesting to see. Interesting topic; thanks for the link.



upload_2019-12-16_15-19-33.png
 

VMP Performance

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Is it really a "test" when the company doing the "test" is one of the items being tested?

We did the test as honestly and without bias as possible, because we ultimately know these types of comments will arise.

We actually swapped the throttle body to one of our 163R monos and picked up even more horsepower, but didn't include that in the video for sake of keeping apples to apples as close as we could.
 

Klaus

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I though they’d both crack 1000 to be honest.

That said, if I ever get back into a s197 500, she’ll definitely have a 2650.


Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com

These would both be >1k through manual. I have seen exact same KB setup throw down 1070 with a 6060.
 

Robert M

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Is it really a "test" when the company doing the "test" is one of the items being tested?

Are they being spun the same? It appears that the Gen3R has a smaller (spin faster) pulley? Does the pulley diameter make a difference in power output? I thought that is one of the first things owners install to gain power? I am not sure if the take off 3.6KB has the oem Super Snake 4" pulley installed, but it looks close...........and it is big.....

001.jpg

002.jpg

004.jpg


Would the Gen3R pull those same dyno numbers with a pulley as shown above or equal to the pulley on the take off 3.6LC? or maybe 3.75 or 3.50". The take-off 3.6KB pulley, (if smaller than the oem 4" Super Snake above) is not that much smaller than 4", at least it does not appear to be when comparing to my picture and comparing the side-by-side pictures in the parts department by the scale. The pulley size comparison looks way different.

Or is this even a realistic comparison between the two S/C's and pulley size? It seems like I have read many, many times how a pulley change can make a big difference, is this true?

R
 

gimmie11s

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They were targeting boost pressure and timing as the constant(along with the TB).

They achieved 24 psi and 24 degrees of timing on both blowers. The larger blower would require a larger pulley then a smaller blower to achieve the same amount of boost.

Over 24 psi (28+), the KB would likely start to walk away, BIGLY.
 

Robert M

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So when one is "petering out" (spun way high) screaming as it were, the other would just be starting to make some big numbers when the pulley is downsized?

A fact that lends to the weight, the larger case KB's have a 4X6 rotor lobe configuration, not the 3X5 as found in the smaller case 2.8 and 3.2. Additinal lobes, additional weight.

R
 

HKusp

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I am a big VMP fan. That being said, it lost 40 ft/lbs of torque peak. I know there more to the curve than just peak numbers, but they don't really mention that part at all.
 

PM-Performance

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@VMP Performance , Did you guys log IAT differences between the 2 by chance? I know the KB's are touted to be pretty hot running units, but curious as to how hot they run be spun down compared to a smaller blower like the 3R being spun fairly hard

Also, which block is he running? I have the Ford Racing block in mine and that low compression is killing me!
 

2011 gtcs

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Ya kB barely warming up with 4inch pulley
If that KB had a 4inch upper it must have a 15% lower since it was making 24psi. A 3.6 KB with a 4 inch pulley will be making 15 to 16 psi, when I had a 3.5 pulley on my 3.6 KB I made about 21psi and was making 827whp on E85.
 
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me32

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@VMP Performance , Did you guys log IAT differences between the 2 by chance? I know the KB's are touted to be pretty hot running units, but curious as to how hot they run be spun down compared to a smaller blower like the 3R being spun fairly hard

Also, which block is he running? I have the Ford Racing block in mine and that low compression is killing me!

What made you swap to the FR block? Should be a great for the higher revs. Also you can add more boost to make up for the compression.
 

Catmonkey

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Unless you've read KB's propaganda, you can't see the irony in this. The KB blower is over 1/3 larger by displacement. Good thing Eaton doesn't make a larger rotor pack.
 

PM-Performance

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What made you swap to the FR block? Should be a great for the higher revs. Also you can add more boost to make up for the compression.

the prior owner blew it up. You would think that, but more boost makes more heat. It doesn’t work out quite as nice as logic makes you think it would. Lol.
Plus tuners won’t cram any more timing in it than any other GT500.
I get the same timing from Lund that everyone else gets. Even more so like -3 * less by the prior tuner. Lol
 

me32

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the prior owner blew it up. You would think that, but more boost makes more heat. It doesn’t work out quite as nice as logic makes you think it would. Lol.
Plus tuners won’t cram any more timing in it than any other GT500.
I get the same timing from Lund that everyone else gets. Even more so like -3 * less by the prior tuner. Lol

Whats the benifit of the stronger bottom end if you dont get some more timing in it? Any plans for a bigger blower like whipple or KB?
 

Oiljunkie

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Unless you've read KB's propaganda, you can't see the irony in this. The KB blower is over 1/3 larger by displacement. Good thing Eaton doesn't make a larger rotor pack.

The smaller blower is coming into its sweet spot, while the bigger isn’t still a ways off. I don’t know why people put a big race blower with a massive wheel against a street blower. It’s a pointless comparison. Very few people buy the right blower for their needs and fuel availability. Small blower cars make such unreal numbers today that their is no need for anything massive except for bragging rights. It’s hard to compare big blowers to small blowers. Would be a better comparison to see the gen3 at 25psi and the 3.6 at 25psi. That might be a better comparison. I think that picture is painted pretty clearly, the kB starts losing at 5,500. It’s just getting started and dies because imo it isn’t spinning like it needs to be at those engine rpms where a dohc engine starts coming alive.
 

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