Thoughts on DCT

GTSpartan

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FWIW, those that are saying the drivetrain losses are significant between the DCT and a conventional auto is not really accurate. In fact, they are typically very close, and are both still a good bit behind a three pedal manual. Remember, a DCT has and extra input shaft that is turning 100% of the time, and don’t forget the pumping losses due to the wet clutch setup as well. Let’s not confuse a DCT with a sequential here. BIG difference between the two.

Also, the GT500 engine is SAE certified against the same J1349 standard that several other automakers rate against, so don’t look for some hugely underrated motor. As always, there will be a safety margin, but don’t expect 800hp engines to be released by the factory.
 
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LostM

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16 % for dct
Bmw s65 rated at 420,dynos 390

If a demon can hit 140 in perfect conditions, so can a gt500
If Demons realistically trap 135-137 , so can a gt500
The numbers are there.
 

GTSpartan

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I think some of you guys that are holding out hope for a 140 trap will be waiting for a loooong time.

The Demon is 100% optimized for the 1/4 mile, at the expense of everything else. As far as I know, only a single 140 mph run was ever achieved.

It would be awesome if it did, but we may be setting the bar to a level that can't possibly ever be reached. Ford GT stomping road course times + Demon 1/4 mile performance just doesn't compute. Especially at 4K + lbs.
 

gofast15

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16 % for dct
Bmw s65 rated at 420,dynos 390

If a demon can hit 140 in perfect conditions, so can a gt500
If Demons realistically trap 135-137 , so can a gt500
The numbers are there.
I have seen around 15 Demons run so far as I go to local tracks very often , the highest trap I've ever seen was 134mph and that was in negative DA . Most of them run 131-133mph in race trim
 
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gofast15

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It would be pretty cool if Ford made adjustable RPM launch control . Most likely it won't happened but hopefully tuners can get this figure out shortly
 

LostM

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I have seen around 15 Demons run so far as I go to local tracks very often , the highest trap I ever seen was 134mph that was in negative DA . Most of them run 131-133mph in race trim

It would be pretty cool if Ford made adjustable RPM launch control . Most likely it won't happened but hopefully tuners can get this figure out shortly

I agree, stock Demons are dissapointing, at atco, mir and Cecil, the 3 fastest tracks in the world, thats why I said IF

I would be suprised if they didnt have rpm control, in 500rpm increments
 

gofast15

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I'm wondering if Ford programmed any kind of trans/ engine protection when the car is cold . Trans temperature had to reach 140*F in my GTR for the launch control to work , which was annoying at the track . LC works in my R8 even if it's cold but the computer limits engine rpms to 6500 when the car is cold , it's very short timing like 1-2 minutes then it goes to standard redline
 

gfcobra04

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16 % for dct
Bmw s65 rated at 420,dynos 390

If a demon can hit 140 in perfect conditions, so can a gt500
If Demons realistically trap 135-137 , so can a gt500
The numbers are there.
The math:
390/420=.928-1.0=.072
That is 7.2% not 16%. 16% loss is approximately 353 not 390.
Correct?
 

gimmie11s

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2.65 is not a big blower. It maybe saps 40hp to spin 7k rpm. Big whipped 3.6’s only eat about 75hp at 12-15psi.

Difference of 9.5/1 compression and 11/1 is about 3% per entire point. As in 4.5%

Call it 5%. 5% of 500hp is 25 hp.

I think the voodoo is 12/1 so 2.5*3=7%

7% of 500hp is 35hp. Big stinking whoop man. It’s decent compression for boost... I did gross math too, not net.

I’ve said my peace. I’m not mad or put off by your posts, I hope you aren’t by mine. Beer


Lol I’m not mad at all! Just having fun bench racing.

None of this matters until the car comes out.




Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app
 

tt335ci03cobra

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Most vw group dct and dsg stuff loses around 30whp in ff setups, and 40whp in awd setups.

The dct in the gt500 is a big boy, as is the driveshaft, and it’s turning 28” tall rears.

One other thing, the carbon wheel gt500 will have less drivetrain loss and sits lower. Just removing the wing and dive planes on a carbon equipped car should be a recipe for the quickest gt500 for rolls. I bet that would reach 180mph very quickly.

Cofd and whp dictate top speed and trap speed far more so than lbs/hp.

Look at a few oddballs throughout history. The 4500lbs 510hp Ram SRT was trapping 103-107 auto-manual meanwhile the auto only charger at 4500lbs runs almosg 115mph in scatpack guise with 485hp. That’s do to rotational mass in the wheels, drag coefficient, and the a8 ratios.

Here’s the 4500lbs quick silver single cab going 107mph with a 6spd auto and 470hp and they talk about an srt10 Ram

Ram 392 Quick Silver Concept First Test - MotorTrend

I brought up cofd a few days back and again, .05 matters a lot. This truck is something like .45+ meanwhile the charger is .35, the 200lbs difference between this truck and a charger scatpack isn’t eating up 5-8mph at the strip

2019 Dodge Challenger R/T Scat Pack 1320 Review: A Singular Mission - MotorTrend
This 485hp challenger does 115 with a transbrake, a8, weight pulled, kill mode, hero run.

A loaded 4K lb auto 19 gt can trap 120 with 460hp. 300lbs isn’t 5mph at these levels.

Take 300lbs out of a Miata and it’ll be noticeable though. It’d be about 12.5%. 300lbs our of 4300lbs is maybe 7%
 
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LostM

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That power band is off in the pic. The car will have more like this powerband. Ie climbing at 7500rpm. This iirc is a supercharged gt350.

View attachment 1586475

Can you rerun the simulation with 8200rpm shifts and 760hp from 7500-8000rpm and 8k rpm shift? I honestly think the car will make 790-800hp at 8200rpm.

I’d guess 10.5@140 is possible in a perfect condition with 1.75 60ft

Throw a tire and race gas, might have a 9.75@144+ in perfect conditions.

The average gt500 time will be 10.8-11.5@ 130+ imo. Tracks altitude how fat the driver is etc all matter even in a dct car with decent traction.

i would need to see the drf file itself, or a more clear image of the dyno for accurate plots
 

DBK

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And for some strange reason, none of the other cars were?

Note it is within a couple seconds of another timed run.

Time of day. Ford, who is historically terrible at virtually everything related to marketing and communication, allowed the car to be tested in the heat of the afternoon when it was apparently 20* hotter ambient then when the 720S ran, and the 17 calibration pulls lotsa power fast in high heat. Billy drove the course 2:38.6. Yeah, that's a pro, but journos aren't 7 seconds off.

In a very fruitless and repetitive discussion, I always explain to them that it's better to just say **** off and not let a car be tested unless there is some kind of equivalence between testing conditions. Nobody sees who is driving (which varies) or what the conditions were when they did it, just the number. Then Ford is like "no trust us, we've got this!" and slams their dick in the door while slashing the car's tires and lighting themselves on fire. Later, they award themselves a trophy.
 

Wilson & Co

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means nothing if its controllable. street tires and 5500rpm wouldnt be smart
Yes understood. My point was that it appears to be adjustable based on 100 or 200rpm increments and max out at 3200.

And that if one were inclined to get best 1/4mi ET on sticky tires, would need to tune that parameter.
 

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