Theres 1. My point was a majority of 7+ speed transmissions have 3 odAre you talking about manual or DCT?
Tremec makes a DCT with 2 OD's. see the chart in post #93.
Theres 1. My point was a majority of 7+ speed transmissions have 3 odAre you talking about manual or DCT?
Tremec makes a DCT with 2 OD's. see the chart in post #93.
They put a drag mode on the damn gt with am auto. Can't see why the gt500 doesn't get one.I’d expect the DCT to have an auto drag feature and give a perfect series of optimal shifts for quarter mile performance.
It’s their launch control I’ve never been impressed with.
If Ford is smart they will have calibrated the drag mode to give launch control optimized for drag radial track launches followed by perfect auto shifts. We shall see.
-J
No doubt the DCT will shift faster, but in manual mode, it is still up to a person to command the shift. Any minuscule delay, or not at the optimal RPM will cost time. That is where the slush box could make up for some of that lost ground, as the ECU will execute absolute precise, optimal, and consistent shifts every time.
It will be interesting to see what shift strategy Ford offers if you leave it in fully auto mode and let it do the shifting for you. If they offer some race auto race mode, that would likely negate the above.
Exactly my point, plus we know this new 500 has a drag mode. I expect the shits to be on point. Now, the launch control?They put a drag mode on the damn gt with am auto. Can't see why the gt500 doesn't get one.
Exactly my point, plus we know this new 500 has a drag mode. I expect the shits to be on point. Now, the launch control?
-J
For discussions sake, here is the calc ive used from the beginning for the GT500.
Top is known and estimated data of 2020 GT500, shift speed of .08
Bottom, exactly the same, shift speed slowed to .23
Result? .2 ET and ~2mph in the 1/4 mile, 0 other changes
View attachment 1586165 View attachment 1586166
That power band is off in the pic. The car will have more like this powerband. Ie climbing at 7500rpm. This iirc is a supercharged gt350.
View attachment 1586475
Can you rerun the simulation with 8200rpm shifts and 760hp from 7500-8000rpm and 8k rpm shift? I honestly think the car will make 790-800hp at 8200rpm.
I’d guess 10.5@140 is possible in a perfect condition with 1.75 60ft
Throw a tire and race gas, might have a 9.75@144+ in perfect conditions.
The average gt500 time will be 10.8-11.5@ 130+ imo. Tracks altitude how fat the driver is etc all matter even in a dct car with decent traction.
You really think this car has 140 in it stock? At 4K+ lbs, I just have a hard time seeing that happen. That’s hyper car territory, and would smoke their own $500K GT.
I could see 135 under perfect conditions
That power band is off in the pic. The car will have more like this powerband. Ie climbing at 7500rpm. This iirc is a supercharged gt350.
View attachment 1586475
Can you rerun the simulation with 8200rpm shifts and 760hp from 7500-8000rpm and 8k rpm shift? I honestly think the car will make 790-800hp at 8200rpm.
I’d guess 10.5@140 is possible in a perfect condition with 1.75 60ft
Throw a tire and race gas, might have a 9.75@144+ in perfect conditions.
The average gt500 time will be 10.8-11.5@ 130+ imo. Tracks altitude how fat the driver is etc all matter even in a dct car with decent traction.
@Klaus i saw you are on the challenger hellcat forum.
What’s your take on my assumptions one post up? I’m honestly just speculating
In the conditions the demon went 9.65@140, yes. In average conditions 130-135.
The night/track the demon went 9.65@140, i’d Imagine a 2019 5.0 gt 10a could have gone 11.50@123 to give an idea of how opportune it was.
Iirc mid 50° range, sticky sub sea level track, lots of prep, etc.
I think 10.75@137 will be common enough to say it’s a solid near hero run.
I think 10.5@140 will be the eventual hero run. Iirc zr1 went 10.2@136 but that’s a lot of aero and an 8a.
The non carbon aero gt500’s will trap probably 3-5mph higher than the aero pack ones imo.
Big reason being I think the 760 is a soft rating much like the 2013 gt500’s 662 or the 03’s 390.
Demons claim 840 and make 760whp
I think the fords will follow in the bullitt, gt, and gt350’s footsteps of 10-12% drivetrain loss tops.
480hp Bullitts are making 435-450whp.
526hp gt350’s are making 460-485whp.
460hp 18+ 5.0 10a are making 415whp
460hp 18+ 5.0 6m are making 430whp.
I’m thinking:
760hp 20 gt500 will make 720whp.
•12psi 2.65 TVS and 9.5/1 5.2L with 8k rpm is well beyond a 760hp combo. 7psi voodoo 5.2’s albeit 12/1 iirc are making 750whp. 7 vs 12psi is much more drastic than 9.5 vs 12/1 compression.
•dct’s don’t sap up hp like auto’s do. There’s no where near the thermal loss or fluid exchange issues like an auto.
•The dct drivetrain in a gt500 could be about 40tq/55hp to fully turn 8k rpm maybe more since its also spinning some heavy brakes. An a8 auto drivetrain probably needs 70tq/85hp to fully spin to 7k rpm.
I don’t personally buy the % loss because the driven parts don’t get heavier or harder to turn as you increase hp. If they did, going up 1psi of boost at a time wouldn’t be as linear to calculate whp with. Also why are 500hp cars with manuals seemingly only losing about 30-40hp just like 300-400hp cars with similar manuals did... 2017 5.0’s have basically the same drivetrain loss as 2018’s. The engines are obviously slightly under rated in both applications by 15-20hp, but additionally, the trans, driveshaft, diff, wheels and tires are close to the same. Same goes for a 2010 4.6 mustang gt manual making 275whp on a 315hp rating. It takes torque to spin that stuff. It doesn’t magically take additional torque to spin that stuff or translate a higher hp cars power to the road. These drive trains aren’t sloppy either to where power may be escaping do to poor reinforcement of hard parts or insufficient clutches etc.
Put this dct in a demon and I bet it runs 9.25@145+ Halo run.
I think the absolutely fastest gt500 scenario would be a carbon fiber wheel setup on a base aero car but that’s not worth the $18k. Buy some $5-6k very light after market wheels and be done with it instead
Thing about spinning to 8k rpm is yes you have to spin a flywheel and clutch faster, but the engine is also more accurate and efficient at scavenging and clearing itself out up there as well. Engines are the least efficient at low to mid rpm for power production. Half the time the cycles are incomplete by some percent and the fuel doesn’t even fully burn.
You really think this car has 140 in it stock? At 4K+ lbs, I just have a hard time seeing that happen. That’s hyper car territory, and would smoke their own $500K GT.
...
... I don’t personally buy the % loss because the driven parts don’t get heavier or harder to turn as you increase hp. ...
The '13/'14 GT500 beat(s) the '05/'06 GT in every performance metric, save for maybe braking. Even though all the owner deliveries aren't complete, the new GT is an "old" car dating back to 2015. The new GT500 might very well be able to beat it on some tracks and in some performance metrics.
Likely never know as nobody is willing to offer up a GT for real data including Ford. Pretty lame honestly.I hear what you're saying, but the mid '00 GT was way out of production by the time trinity 500 came around, so I am not sure that is the best comparison. At least this time around, both are in production at the same time. Even though they are aimed at vastly different buyers, it just doesn't seem like Ford would want a far lesser model to outperform their halo vehicle.
Who knows, maybe they don't give a rip.