No Replacement for Displacement | Is it Time for a 5.7L Tall-Deck Coyote???

No Replacement for Displacement | Is it Time for a 5.7L Tall-Deck Coyote???

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Let’s face it, the 5.0 Coyote V8 has introduced an era of Ford Pony Car dominance the likes of which we’ve never really seen. The Terminator absolutely crushed the competition in its day, but that was a time where Mustang was really the only active pony car offering. Coyote has had challengers from both Mopar and Chevy during its three (so far) generation run. In the GT class the competition doesn’t really touch if, and when you start adding mods the dominance is even more apparent.

However, once you leave the world of performance cars and step into the truck arena things are a bit difference. When you start adding weight low end torque and a flat torque curve start to become more important than high-revving horsepower. Then you have to consider that both GM and Ram are offering much larger displacement V8s. The GM 6.2L truck engine is particularly potent; and other than the cylinder deactivation eventually crapping out, it’s a pretty good engine. Rumor has it that Mopar is going to start installing a larger displacement HEMI in their half-ton trucks as well.

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GM built this tall-deck LSX block and it can be stretched to 454 cubic inches.

That leaves Ford with a comparatively small, yet far more technologically advanced, 5.0 V8 and a bunch of V6 engines. While the 3.5L EcoBoost is a seriously powerful engine, there’s a large contingent of buyers who can’t see themselves anything other than a big Ford V8. Ford those buyers even the fantastic Coyote may fall a little short of their expectations. But there is a throwback technique Ford could use to bring a new level of performance to the Coyote platform.

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Which of these appeal to you?

The first Ford modular engine was a 4.6L V8 (progenitor of the 5.0 Coyote) introduced in 1991 Lincoln Town Car. Six years later Ford stretched the 4.6 block to make the 5.4L V8 that we came to know and love across multiple utilitarian and SVT platforms. The same method could be applied to the 3rd Gen Coyote, and if the stroke were kept the same as the five-four you would end up with a 5.7L V8. To me; that is an appropriately sized top-of-the-line ½ ton truck V8, and it would take a minimal amount of effort from Ford Powertrain Engineering.

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Ford has dropped a tall-deck 32V V8 in a "truck" before. Look up the Lincoln Blackwood.

We would only need a handful of new parts to make this work. Of course you’re going to need a new tall-deck block, but that’s easy enough. They can either stretch the Coyote mold of Coyote’ize the old 5.4 block. Then there’re new rods and probably a cam profile. The primary timing chains and front cover are going to need to be a bit longer, and the intake manifold will have the be a bit wider. The wiring harness and exhaust will require a little tweeking. They might be able to just know the dust off the Trinity 5.8L crank tooling and use those forged arms. In any event, this isn’t rocket science. Ford could make this happen if there was a market for it.

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The 6.2L Ford V8 was nicely sized, but a bit on the piggy side.

So what would a 5.7L tall-Deck Coyote V8 put out? The last time we had big and little V8 options in the F-150 was 2010, back before EcoBoost was a thing. At that time Ford actually bragged about having an All-V8 Engine lineup. You could have a 4.6L (in either 2V or 3V configuration) or a 5.4L 3V. For comparison’s sake let’s focus on the 3V engines. The 4.6L made 292 HP @ 5700RPM and 320 Lb-Ft @ 4000RPM.

While the 5.4L was churning out 320HP @ 5000RPM and 390 Lb-Ft @ 3500RPM* (these are the factory rating while using E-85, on regular gas peak numbers were 310/365 at the same RPM readings). The current 3rd Gen 5.0 in a 2018+ F-150 is rated at 395HP @ 5750RPM and 400 Lb-Ft @ 4500 RPM.

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We don't look back at the 5.4L 3V very fondly, but it did make decent torque at low RPMs.

That’s a difference of 28HP and 70Lb-Ft,and the 5.4 was making peak torque 500RPMs earlier on its highest output 3V version. Even if the a 5.7L Coyote made roughly the same increases over the 5.0 as we saw with the old 3V engines you’d be looking at a top line V8 making somewhere in the neighborhood of 425HP @ 5500RPM and 470 Lb-Ft @ 4000RPM. That’s enough to make it the most powerful V8 gas engine offering in a half-ton truck (2019+ GM 6.2 V8 makes 420HP @ 5600RPM and 460 Lb-Ft @ 4100RPM).

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The 5.0 Coyote is a great engine, but the F-150 could use a little more V8 grunt.

Personally, I think if Ford were to produce such an engine we could expect output to be a little higher. That’s mostly due to all the technology advantages the 3rd Gen Coyote architecture has over the old 3-Valve stuff. If I were to hazard a guess I would peg a tall-deck Coyote headed V8 at around 435HP @ 5700 RPM and 485 Lb-Ft @ 4000 RPM.

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A positive displacement blower is a great way to add torque, but a longer stroke from the factory would be a lot more economical.

Now the big question, is there a market for a long stroke Coyote? There was a market for a 351 over a 302, and a 5.4 over a 4.6. I don’t see why there wouldn’t be buyers for a torquier version of one of the best V8s Ford has produced. But it really comes down to you guys. If a 5.7L Coyote in an F-150 is something you’d like to see post in this thread. Ford keeps an eye on SVTP, so they’ll see your opinion. Let them know.

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Just imagine a 5.8L Coyote headed V8 in a new Cobra Mustang from Ford. Tell them to make it a reality.
-SID297
 
I would love to see it, but no way is a 5.8L DOHC motor making 470 tq at even 3500 rpms. Not if it also wants to be making 400+ HP.

Your numbers are a little off the 5.0 already almost makes 400hp in a truck. So saying a 5.8 would not make 400hp is just lost sight of technology. A 5.8 could easily make 470hp in a truck and its tq 470 at 3500rpm. With the proper stroke and cams would be easy todo with out pushing it.
 
Your numbers are a little off the 5.0 already almost makes 400hp in a truck. So saying a 5.8 would not make 400hp is just lost sight of technology. A 5.8 could easily make 470hp in a truck and its tq 470 at 3500rpm. With the proper stroke and cams would be easy todo with out pushing it.

Not to mention 12:1 compression with a massive stroke.
 
Your numbers are a little off the 5.0 already almost makes 400hp in a truck. So saying a 5.8 would not make 400hp is just lost sight of technology. A 5.8 could easily make 470hp in a truck and its tq 470 at 3500rpm. With the proper stroke and cams would be easy todo with out pushing it.

My comment wasn't HP or Tq, my comment was about the HP AND TQ. Sure, I have no doubt it could easily do one or the other, I just have a hard time seeing it doing both.

The 6.2 in the Silverado is DI and 11.5 compression ratio. Not to sound like a Chevy nut swinger, but I do feel like it will be quite the uphill battle to beat a larger displacement engine in both HP and TQ *Assuming we stay with the initial argument of this 5.8 besting or matching the 3.5 EB.
 
My comment wasn't HP or Tq, my comment was about the HP AND TQ. Sure, I have no doubt it could easily do one or the other, I just have a hard time seeing it doing both.

The 6.2 in the Silverado is DI and 11.5 compression ratio. Not to sound like a Chevy nut swinger, but I do feel like it will be quite the uphill battle to beat a larger displacement engine in both HP and TQ *Assuming we stay with the initial argument of this 5.8 besting or matching the 3.5 EB.

The long stroke of the tall-deck modular has always been a major benefit to TQ production. The VVT in the Coyote heads have proven to be a huge advantage over the pushrod GM offerings.
 
The long stroke of the tall-deck modular has always been a major benefit to TQ production. The VVT in the Coyote heads have proven to be a huge advantage over the pushrod GM offerings.

Correct, and maybe I'm just being overly pessimistic, but l imagine it will also come down to what sort of RPM that long stroke will support as far as reaching the HP figure is concerned. Doing the math though, the corresponding increase in displacement means you could lose 700 rpms and match the current 5.0's peak HP figure (all else equal of course) so maybe it is doable.
 
Also consider the transmission. I have an 3.5 eco f150, but the six speed. I can stall it to about 2500 before it spins. With lock up, they can run a looser converter. The eco will make more torque down low, but under load you wont be there anyway. The lower spread between 10 gears will also even out that advantage. Think about the extra lever arm of the stroke increase and the higher port velocity, all bringing down the max torque rpm.
And it will sound so much better, you literally can't make an eco sound good, I've tried. Power to be had with exhaust changes, but lord the sound blows, but I do like the tip in turbo whistle. Do I think they will do it? Hell no, I think Ford has sold its soul to left wing global warming and peak oil bullshit, and they ain't coming back. We will get batteries and electric assist and mini bike displacement. Shit we will all be driving trains soon if the trends don't change.
 
Also consider the transmission. I have an 3.5 eco f150, but the six speed. I can stall it to about 2500 before it spins. With lock up, they can run a looser converter. The eco will make more torque down low, but under load you wont be there anyway. The lower spread between 10 gears will also even out that advantage. Think about the extra lever arm of the stroke increase and the higher port velocity, all bringing down the max torque rpm.
And it will sound so much better, you literally can't make an eco sound good, I've tried. Power to be had with exhaust changes, but lord the sound blows, but I do like the tip in turbo whistle. Do I think they will do it? Hell no, I think Ford has sold its soul to left wing global warming and peak oil bullshit, and they ain't coming back. We will get batteries and electric assist and mini bike displacement. Shit we will all be driving trains soon if the trends don't change.

Have you seen the rumors on what the 2020 F-150 Hybrid might be packing? The guess is that it will be shockingly similar to the new lincoln putting out give or take 450 hp / 600 tq. Give me the little boost in mpg around town from the electric motor and those power figures and I could be on board...
 
I already love what Ford has done with the 5.0, with performance that equals and in most cases surpasses engines with larger displacements I feel that if Ford were to increase the displacement of the already potent 5.0 it would easily decimate and dominate over ALL other equally displaced engines...sign me up!!!
 
Have you seen the rumors on what the 2020 F-150 Hybrid might be packing? The guess is that it will be shockingly similar to the new lincoln putting out give or take 450 hp / 600 tq. Give me the little boost in mpg around town from the electric motor and those power figures and I could be on board...
I did a quick look at the speculation, and I have my doubts. I have to tow a fair amount for my business, and I'm about to get a 28 foot enclosed trailer for my race car. I wonder how long that battery is going to hold up on a 70 mile 6000 lb tow? Cost and complexity are also a question I have. How long will the batteries last? I'm old school, having turbos is pushing it for me, at least in a gas truck. Oh, and while the eco pulls what I need it too like a champ, it will drink some fuel doing it. The diesel at this time is overkill for me. I just think the original topic would be the best solution for me, and most others that use the truck as a truck.
 
I did a quick look at the speculation, and I have my doubts. I have to tow a fair amount for my business, and I'm about to get a 28 foot enclosed trailer for my race car. I wonder how long that battery is going to hold up on a 70 mile 6000 lb tow? Cost and complexity are also a question I have. How long will the batteries last? I'm old school, having turbos is pushing it for me, at least in a gas truck. Oh, and while the eco pulls what I need it too like a champ, it will drink some fuel doing it. The diesel at this time is overkill for me. I just think the original topic would be the best solution for me, and most others that use the truck as a truck.

I would not tow a 28 foot enclosed trailer with an F-150. The new ones lost so much weight that I'm not really comfortable with that much sail area in windy conditions.

I believe a Godzilla Super Duty might be the best bet for you.
 
I would not tow a 28 foot enclosed trailer with an F-150. The new ones lost so much weight that I'm not really comfortable with that much sail area in windy conditions.

I believe a Godzilla Super Duty might be the best bet for you.
Your're right, but I'm not ready to make that jump yet. I've upgraded the suspension and its 4WD too, as I have to get in sloppy areas at times for my business. My partner has the oil burner, might just use his for the time being.
 

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