Suspension Tech: Bring It!

TrackpackGT

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I too am looking for a plan, as you already responded to in my thread and thanks. Ford Racing springs were on my list as I figured a progressive spring is usually the way to go on a daily driver, and they're aren't a ton of those. Thanks for your honesty and I will keep you in mind for my other suspension needs. Do you have to install the GT500 upper mounts? (Thinking my trackpack came with those)
 
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BMR Tech

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Thank you for the list! You don't think an adjustable UCA is necessary?
Do you have a preference between the Konis and Bilsteins?
I am interested to hear about your new springs. I want to keep the springs relatively soft, but still just slightly stiffer than the stock brembo/track pack springs. I remember hearing that the FRPP springs are softer than the brembo ones.

I do not think an UCA is necessary, but I do recommend them. I mean, I also recommend all the other parts we make too, but I was giving you more of a "start here, to get your best bang for the buck - for what yo are looking for"

If you are going to install a 1-Piece DS - well go ahead and add the UCA and Mount to the list. If you are going to stick with your OEM DS....I'd do the UCA at a later date. Start with the goodies I listed, then work from there - IMO.

I do not believe the P Springs are softer than the Brembos 131F / 167R rates. Maybe during their progressive rate portion of the spring, but I doubt they are softer when actually being put to use.

I too am looking for a plan, as you already responded to in my thread and thanks. Ford Racing springs were on my list as I figured a progressive spring is usually the way to go on a daily driver, and they're aren't a ton of those. Thanks for your honesty and I will keep you in mind for my other suspension needs. Do you have to install the GT500 upper mounts? (Thinking my trackpack came with those)

TP did not come with the GT500 Mounts.

You don't "need" to install them, but I highly recommend it.

I will find a post I made somewhere else, and show you why I like the GT500 Mounts. Keep in mind, You need to run 05-10 Style Struts, to use GT500 Mounts.
 

BMR Tech

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I still do not understand why it is better to go with the 05-10 GT500 mounts vs the 11-14 mounts? Is the only reason because the GT500 mounts are cheaper than the newer style mounts? I would think that the newer style system would be better than the older system? :shrug:

GT500 mounts are $120

11+ OEM Mounts are $80.

I can't help but find it funny how people believe the "newer style must be better" - when, a 2014 GT500 comes with - you got it, GT500 Mounts. ;)

Personally, I cannot stand the 11+ GT/V6/Boss Mounts. We have had way too many issues here, with them. Not only do they have issues with falling apart, breaking, etc....but they also have issues making noise - due to their poor design. The GT500 Mounts are also easier to install (properly)

Here is a direct comparison I did. GT500 Mount is the larger one, with the thicker rubber.

20140915_100255_zpsehvgk9n1.jpg

20140915_100330_zpsvbruyyf4.jpg

20140915_100401_zps8gx9bcu1.jpg

20140915_100617_zpshbt5mdty.jpg

20140915_100650_zpsbjrevobq.jpg



One of the "issues" I have with the 11+ Mounts, is the tiny amount of material they use. You can clearly see what I am referring to above, with the picture of it on the spring It is very common to see that rubber split/crack where the coil spring leaves the mount....causing some squeaking, groaning noises.
 

AKDMB

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Hey Kelly,

I have Strange 10 way struts/shocks, along with Steeda sport springs and GT500 mounts on my 2012 V6. I was wondering, what settings should I run for everyday driving over Normal to semi-crappy roads?
 

Scott8583

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30? LOL


As for the UCA and Mount / KCA and Brackets....if the car (fender arches) are in the 28.5" range or lower - I recommend the Upper Hole on the UCA Mount, and the Middle on the LCA Brackets.

what if your at 28.75 with a 315/40/18 tire? advertised at 28, but I measured 27.25@30psi
 

TrackpackGT

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Just to confirm, using the GT500 mounts requires the previous gen shocks/struts ? For some reason Ford lists theirs as 05-14, not that I'm buying those. I assume this mount requires a longer shock shaft. (from what I can see in the pics)
 

BMR Tech

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Hey Kelly,

I have Strange 10 way struts/shocks, along with Steeda sport springs and GT500 mounts on my 2012 V6. I was wondering, what settings should I run for everyday driving over Normal to semi-crappy roads?

If it were my car, and based on my experiences - I would run 2 click on the rear, and 5 clicks on the front. That seems to be the sweet spot for street use, with the Strange dampers and most lowering springs.

what if your at 28.75 with a 315/40/18 tire? advertised at 28, but I measured 27.25@30psi

Fender arch measurements simply give me a rough idea of what to work with. Some people say there is no way I can give recommendations based on them, but I have "worked" with pretty much every set-up, and have a good idea.

For a 28.75" fender arch - I would use the OEM LCA position, and the lower hole in our UCA Mount.

The other option would be, the upper hole in our UCA Mount, and the Top hole of our LCA Brackets. Of course, you can go more aggressive....but you will need to test to see what positions work best.

Just to confirm, using the GT500 mounts requires the previous gen shocks/struts ? For some reason Ford lists theirs as 05-14, not that I'm buying those. I assume this mount requires a longer shock shaft. (from what I can see in the pics)

GT500 Mounts require a 2005-2010 Strut, or a GT500 Strut.
 

50blackout

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Kelly,

Are there pros and cons to weld in sub frame connectors (for example BMR's) and bolt in ones (say hotchkis)? Do they give the same performance/stiffness?
 

Voltwings

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OK ... Here's a thought i've just had regarding strut tower bars.

I've recently started doing more road course driving, and have been doing a lot of research regarding vehicle dynamics with sway bars, staggered vs square tires, etc. This brings me to an interesting thought i just had regarding the strut tower brace. I think a lot of people, as well as myself, think this piece is magic. You just put it on and the car corners better because it' stiffer.

How does it achieve that stiffness though? Lets assume you are on a right handed sweeper, which puts most of the vehicles load on the front driver's side tire. When adding a strut tower bar, you'd essentially be placing some of that load back on the passenger side front, but how? Its not like that wheel just magically goes back down and makes more contact, it has to be braced against something: The opposing shock tower. This basically means the cost of getting the passenger front tire down is MORE load on the drivers side front tire ... Almost seems like in certain circumstances this could in fact be degrading to a vehicles performance instead of an upgrade? However, i realize this is a VERY grey area...
 

Elwood617

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OK ... Here's a thought i've just had regarding strut tower bars.

I've recently started doing more road course driving, and have been doing a lot of research regarding vehicle dynamics with sway bars, staggered vs square tires, etc. This brings me to an interesting thought i just had regarding the strut tower brace. I think a lot of people, as well as myself, think this piece is magic. You just put it on and the car corners better because it' stiffer.

How does it achieve that stiffness though? Lets assume you are on a right handed sweeper, which puts most of the vehicles load on the front driver's side tire. When adding a strut tower bar, you'd essentially be placing some of that load back on the passenger side front, but how? Its not like that wheel just magically goes back down and makes more contact, it has to be braced against something: The opposing shock tower. This basically means the cost of getting the passenger front tire down is MORE load on the drivers side front tire ... Almost seems like in certain circumstances this could in fact be degrading to a vehicles performance instead of an upgrade? However, i realize this is a VERY grey area...
Braces all work the same way, they spread the load. This will make the chassis stiffer and allow the suspension to do its job.
 

hoodley

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ok here is a different one for you, HARD TIRE RACING. sumitumo 275/40/18.
I am set up upper in top hole, lowers in middle hole. rear strange single adjustable tightened 8 clicks. mainly to keep it going straight on the shift.
If not it goes into seconds and blows the tires off.
I have a consistent 1.90 60ft. with the occasional 1.89-87, of course the track is well prepped for the hard tire race.
only power mods are cai,x pipe and tune. Is there any more left in suspension?
I can mat the gas just over 1100, go off converter, or idle, and it dont spin a lick! wont hook in the street though...
 

Elwood617

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By the looks of your pic, and the video....I would want a little more Anti-Squat. Of course, this is if the tires and track can handle it.

My suggestion is to do the following: (what I would do if I had your car)

Front struts at 2 clicks from soft
Rear Shocks at 4C/7R
UCA in Top Hole
LCA in Middle Hole
Tire PSI @ 12.5 - 14PSI cold.
Launch RPM at 5800RPM minimum.

To get past the 1.6X range in N/A 430 rwhp trim......it "usually" takes 5800+ RPM launches....and a decent amount of Anti-Squat.

One of the reasons I don't really recommend the CJ springs up front.....is because you usually have to run more Rebound stiffness than I prefer......to prevent bouncing/unloading. The BMR front spring is where "its at"

Took your advice and got consistent 1.65 60'. What would be the next step to try and bring that down?
 

twistedneck

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Question on the BMR front control arms - I'm looking forward to the corrected geometry with the long ball stud and anti dive built in but I'm not sure if I should go with the adjustable or fixed version. Can you explain the differences? I will be driving the car once per week and tracking it every few weeks on take off 275/35/18 sized slicks.

Car is lowered on Steeda springs now, coilovers going in this November.

Any other info about the front end geometry appreciated!
 

Gpcalero

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Question on the BMR front control arms - I'm looking forward to the corrected geometry with the long ball stud and anti dive built in but I'm not sure if I should go with the adjustable or fixed version. Can you explain the differences? I will be driving the car once per week and tracking it every few weeks on take off 275/35/18 sized slicks.

Car is lowered on Steeda springs now, coilovers going in this November.

Any other info about the front end geometry appreciated!

+1

I assume you are talking about the A-arms?
I want to know and have heard of people having problems with the 18mm ball joints
 

BMR Tech

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Kelly,

Are there pros and cons to weld in sub frame connectors (for example BMR's) and bolt in ones (say hotchkis)? Do they give the same performance/stiffness?

When comparing a bolt-on SFC to a weld-in, the Weld-In "pros" far outweigh the "pros" of the bolt-in pieces.

The only con for a weld-in, is, you have to weld it. A subframe connector works best welded in, as there is no slipping or deflection of the mounting points. Personally, I would rather not use a SFC than to use a Bolt-On SFC.

OK ... Here's a thought i've just had regarding strut tower bars.

I've recently started doing more road course driving, and have been doing a lot of research regarding vehicle dynamics with sway bars, staggered vs square tires, etc. This brings me to an interesting thought i just had regarding the strut tower brace. I think a lot of people, as well as myself, think this piece is magic. You just put it on and the car corners better because it' stiffer.

How does it achieve that stiffness though? Lets assume you are on a right handed sweeper, which puts most of the vehicles load on the front driver's side tire. When adding a strut tower bar, you'd essentially be placing some of that load back on the passenger side front, but how? Its not like that wheel just magically goes back down and makes more contact, it has to be braced against something: The opposing shock tower. This basically means the cost of getting the passenger front tire down is MORE load on the drivers side front tire ... Almost seems like in certain circumstances this could in fact be degrading to a vehicles performance instead of an upgrade? However, i realize this is a VERY grey area...

Braces all work the same way, they spread the load. This will make the chassis stiffer and allow the suspension to do its job.

I honestly don't give much praise to STB and their improvement on a handling application.

I like them because they help keep the front square. You would not believe how minor of an incident, will cause the towers to shift. I've had plenty of customers over the years, try to install our STB - and them not fit. The reason was, minor fender benders or hitting curbs. Pretty telling IMO. I once thought a STB was a waste of time, but after doing what I do for so long...I am a fan of them.

ok here is a different one for you, HARD TIRE RACING. sumitumo 275/40/18.
I am set up upper in top hole, lowers in middle hole. rear strange single adjustable tightened 8 clicks. mainly to keep it going straight on the shift.
If not it goes into seconds and blows the tires off.
I have a consistent 1.90 60ft. with the occasional 1.89-87, of course the track is well prepped for the hard tire race.
only power mods are cai,x pipe and tune. Is there any more left in suspension?
I can mat the gas just over 1100, go off converter, or idle, and it dont spin a lick! wont hook in the street though...

Hard tire racing - you want a little wheel speed. You do not want to blow the tires off, but you DO want some spin. The reason is because, making them dead hook requires lack of RPM / Hit. If you can get them to spin just a little, the car will ET and MPH better.

I would either increase the anti squat until you over power the tires slightly....or raise up tire pressure - or both, to induce a little wheel speed.

Took your advice and got consistent 1.65 60'. What would be the next step to try and bring that down?

Consistent 1.65 by "dead hooking" or? Have a video? A 1.65 can be done by hooking hard, or spinning the tires. If you are spinning the tires, then we need to adjust the suspension a little.....if you are dead hooking, I would raise the launch RPM up until you don't hook first, then come down a little......OR I would try and induce some wheel speed by either tire pressure adjustments, or suspension tweaks.

What is it doing on the hit?

What is it doing on the hit?

Question on the BMR front control arms - I'm looking forward to the corrected geometry with the long ball stud and anti dive built in but I'm not sure if I should go with the adjustable or fixed version. Can you explain the differences? I will be driving the car once per week and tracking it every few weeks on take off 275/35/18 sized slicks.

Car is lowered on Steeda springs now, coilovers going in this November.

Any other info about the front end geometry appreciated!

For a handling application, I really don't like a Poly Non-Adjustable FLCA. I have had a few guys bust those poly (front) bushings up...and it just does no good.

I ALWAYS recommend an adjustable LCA for handling, simply because they perform better and they are more durable for road course abuse.

As for the geometry, our A-Arms are not designed to be used with anti-dive (increased) - I personally never recommend raising that back mount with our arms, simply because of the increase twisting force placed on the assembly. I have guys doing it, but I am leary of that. I usually recommend getting the components in bare, and spray painting them silver, to easily spot any damage if it presents it's ugly head.

I like the tall ball joint, for roll center improvement. That said, they can cause issues. The wheel moves slightly inboard, which can cause clearance issues with large brake kits (rotors)....and they can also cause some headache with alignment (tires will be toes out upon initial install)

As for the Poly VS Bearing - the NVH will definitely be a little more noticeable with the bearing. If you are worried at all, about NVH, then an aftermarket FLCA / or the aftermarket bushing&joint kits may not be your best route.
 
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Elwood617

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Consistent 1.65 by "dead hooking" or? Have a video? A 1.65 can be done by hooking hard, or spinning the tires. If you are spinning the tires, then we need to adjust the suspension a little.....if you are dead hooking, I would raise the launch RPM up until you don't hook first, then come down a little......OR I would try and induce some wheel speed by either tire pressure adjustments, or suspension tweaks.
It wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww dead hooking up at 5800 and 6000. I got them to spin at 6200, but the track was getting damp from humidity. I was thinking of going up 0.5 - 1 psi in the tires.
I did not get any external video, this is all I got this time at the track.

2012 Mustang GT Coastal Plains Dragway 11.53@119 …: http://youtu.be/5lXGJil53nI

Thanks for your input, and thanks for the information on your a-arms. That is one of my next mods, and I'm going to get the adjustable arms :)
 

twistedneck

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I like the tall ball joint, for roll center improvement. That said, they can cause issues. The wheel moves slightly inboard, which can cause clearance issues with large brake kits (rotors)....and they can also cause some headache with alignment (tires will be toes out upon initial install)

Thanks for clearing that up. I have a 2012 Brembo GT with Girodisc rotors and D-force 18x10 Vorshlag wheels (lots of caliper clearance) also run cooling ducts that rub a little bit. If you think this will fit I have no problem getting an alignment and putting your bump steer kit if you recommend. Would these a-arms present the same fundamental give and take with a long ball stud as the Boss 302s arms? Those are $100 more, 11lbs heavier than yours and don't have the adjustable mount. Thanks for the excellent responses.
 

DIB2014

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When a customer wants what you have described, I have been very successful at fulfilling their needs with my recommendations - even though the parts that I recommend aren't all my parts (BMR)

In the near future, I will have some springs that would tickle your fancy, but at this time...here is what I recommend personally.

-FRPP P Springs
-Koni Yellows -or- Bilsteins
-GT500 Upper Strut Mounts -or- Vorshlag CC Plates if you want CC adjustment
-BMR Panhard Bar (PHR006)
-BMR Relocation Brackets (CAB005) - *Top or Middle Position
-BMR Lower Control Arms (TCA021)

Then, to top it off.....the new Mack Daddy Sway Bars we just released:
-BMR Front Bar, 5-Way/38mm (SB041)
-BMR Rear Bar, 4-way/25mm (SB042)

This package will give you what I like to call, a "soft spring / big bar" approach. It will be comfortable enough for daily driving, and will give you a grin from ear to ear on road course, AutoX - HPDE's etc.

The combination of the spring rates, and the compression valving on the Koni or Bilsteins...will definitely assist in ridding of that nasty dive.

The Sway Bars will give you the ability to tune in that additional roll stiffness/wheel rate....due to the mild rate of the P-Springs. The Springs will likely give you the look you are after, to boot.

The LCA / Relos....these will assist you in powering through the corners...and slightly aide you in turning, due to the roll steer advantage.

Say goodbye to wheel hop, and sloppy braking and cornering. Be sure to post results after you perform these mods, I love hearing about it!

Hi Kelly,

like noldevin, I too am looking at a similar set-up for my 2014 GT TP NA, although mine is not a DD. But, many of the same goals (great handling - primarily street for now - no wheel hop - firm but not harsh ride).

I will be replacing the DS with a one piece, so good time to upgrade the UCA. Following is what I have sitting in the closet - ready to start soon. Appreciate your suggestions on set-up/hole location settings, and any other tips/tricks! This is a very helpful thread!

1. Koni Yellows Front/Rear
2. Steeda Sport Springs (~1 inch drop)
3. Ground Control CC Street plates
4. BMR LCA (ACA004)
5. BMR LCA Relo (CAB005)
6. BMR UCA (UTCA032) with bracket (UCM002)
7. BMR Panhard Bar (PHR006)
(might add the SB042 if you think it will contribute to the goal)

Thanks Kelly!
 

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