E85 vs c16

[BADASS03SVT]

It's ALL apples to oranges....it's a totally different fuel with different characteristics. Which why (as we have been saying) guys that run C16 can run E85. It's cooler and the ethanol has super resistance to knock. The octane is kind of moot.

 

[Turbo98]

I wouldn't say any engine. For high compression engines and boosted applications, absolutely.

I absolutely would say ANY engine. There are so many benefits besides detonation resistance. If you can swap to a fuel that allows your engine to instantly run 20* cooler, that's a good benefit. When you can swap it in a n/a Mach 1 and see a 35rwhp gain with no other changes, it's a great fuel. The characteristics of the burn allow it to make more power as it burns longer through the crank angle.

As far as octane rating, like somebody already said, it doesn't matter. People are trying to figure out how this relatively low octane fuel doesn't detonate. It's already been proven that it resists detonation something fierce and I bet the scientists and engineers still don't know why. Technically Methanol has a higher latent heat of vaporization and should cool even better but I'm starting to believe that Ethanol is a better fuel than Methanol.

 

[RFH]

you can blow up an E85 engine, Ive done it. But the caveat is that it wasn't a spark knock problem, but a pre-ignition problem. While ethanol has a high resistance to autoignition, it has a fairly low resistance to hot surface ignition. That means if you have hot surfaces in your engine, like hot spark plugs or carbon deposits, it will ignite on those before the spark. This will destroy your engine, fast.

So, it is possible for a poor chamber design like the 2 valve, that you could see differences in fuels from this phenomenon, especially on such a low speed engine.

Also pump E85 has a PON of about 98. We just sent a batch out and this is what we got on our CoA.

 

[Black*Death]

Does anyone in this thread have any apples to apples comparisons?

Posting vids of big motors with huge twin turbos and articles to KOTS prove nothing. Also people basing their performance gains off of their butt dynos or what their buddys brother ran. I want to see back to back (before and after) dyno pulls and 1320 runs in a car or truck that is identical with the exception of the fuel (C16 to E85) and timing adjustments in the tune to take advantage of the available octane and/or knock inhibitors.

That's all you...go do it...Then post results

 

[Ct.TOPGUN]

you can blow up an E85 engine, Ive done it. But the caveat is that it wasn't a spark knock problem, but a pre-ignition problem. While ethanol has a high resistance to autoignition, it has a fairly low resistance to hot surface ignition. That means if you have hot surfaces in your engine, like hot spark plugs or carbon deposits, it will ignite on those before the spark. This will destroy your engine, fast.

So, it is possible for a poor chamber design like the 2 valve, that you could see differences in fuels from this phenomenon, especially on such a low speed engine.

Also pump E85 has a PON of about 98. We just sent a batch out and this is what we got on our CoA.

That is exactly what I would suspect on the 2V Modular. C16 excells at limiting preignition. Nice to hear real world support that backs up the "theory". Sorry you lost the motor to the experiment, though.

 

[Turbo98]

With me anyway, when I refer to detonation, I’m referring to any pre-ignition of any kind. Be it caused by hot spots or “spark knock” or whatever. Many, many people have proven that E85 is very resistant to detonation when running “normal” a/f ratios (I’ll explain this further down). One reason might be that the auto-ignition temperature of gasoline is 495*F. The auto-ignition temperature of E85 is 630*F. Many people are running it in one valve, two valve, three valve, and four valve engines of all types—pushrods, SOHCs, DOHCs or whatever. In fact, the way I look at it is that the more inefficient and engine is, the more you will benefit from running E85. You can try to research and calculate all the best octane ratings to justify running it or not running it. But like mentioned earlier, it really doesn’t matter.

In my personal car, we ran the ignition timing up to 30* advanced under high boost with no detonation. This is unheard of with gasoline. The car did lose power because we were past MBT at that point. This was with the a/f in the upper 11’s. Also, it is possible to detonate E85 if you run it too rich. The Evo guys experience this and I don’t fully understand that phenomenon yet. So the bottom line is that if you run you’re a/f ratio at 11.5-12.0, E85 highly resists detonation. I’m sure there are isolated cases where somebody has detonated it but it’s very rare. There are WAY too many advantages for me not to run it. Some of them are:

• Makes more overall power than race fuel
• Costs 1/3 the price of race fuel
• Runs 20* cooler than gasoline of all types
• Spools turbos and blowers faster
• Keeps your engine steam cleaned
• Keeps your fuel system squeaky clean
• Less stress on engine components

The conclusion is if you want to safely make more power, run it! If not, don’t run it.

 

[blowngt]

With me anyway, when I refer to detonation, I’m referring to any pre-ignition of any kind. Be it caused by hot spots or “spark knock” or whatever. Many, many people have proven that E85 is very resistant to detonation when running “normal” a/f ratios (I’ll explain this further down). One reason might be that the auto-ignition temperature of gasoline is 495*F. The auto-ignition temperature of E85 is 630*F. Many people are running it in one valve, two valve, three valve, and four valve engines of all types—pushrods, SOHCs, DOHCs or whatever. In fact, the way I look at it is that the more inefficient and engine is, the more you will benefit from running E85. You can try to research and calculate all the best octane ratings to justify running it or not running it. But like mentioned earlier, it really doesn’t matter.

In my personal car, we ran the ignition timing up to 30* advanced under high boost with no detonation. This is unheard of with gasoline. The car did lose power because we were past MBT at that point. This was with the a/f in the upper 11’s. Also, it is possible to detonate E85 if you run it too rich. The Evo guys experience this and I don’t fully understand that phenomenon yet. So the bottom line is that if you run you’re a/f ratio at 11.5-12.0, E85 highly resists detonation. I’m sure there are isolated cases where somebody has detonated it but it’s very rare. There are WAY too many advantages for me not to run it. Some of them are:

• Makes more overall power than race fuel
• Costs 1/3 the price of race fuel
• Runs 20* cooler than gasoline of all types
• Spools turbos and blowers faster
• Keeps your engine steam cleaned
• Keeps your fuel system squeaky clean
• Less stress on engine components

The conclusion is if you want to safely make more power, run it! If not, don’t run it.

I had a tensioner go bad after about 2000 miles so we took the shortblock completely out to check everything else. This is what my pistons looked like after I wiped them down with a lint free rag and some brake clean:

Shot at 2010-10-05

Shot at 2010-10-05

 

[AntiHeightPunk]

how many rwhp is that auto holding?

 

[blowngt]

how many rwhp is that auto holding?

Not sure since I'm not big on dyno #s.

It has gone 10.07 @142 - 3700#s with me in it and a 1.68 60'

She's got mid 9's in her without a doubt........